Forum : Veicoli militari

Soggetto : sherman francesi in vietnam

 Hoot :

13/9/2020 20:13
 Ciao a tutti
Qualcuno sa indicarmi che modelli di sherman hanno usato i francesi in vietnam.....e magari anche la scatola
Grazie in anticipo

 Fabrizio1966 :

13/9/2020 20:55
 M4A-1


M4 105 mm


c'erano anche M4 composite ...

un foglio star decals dedicato:

 frengo :

13/9/2020 21:42
 perchè fare uno sherman quando puoi fare un panther!!! :-o

 Hoot :

13/9/2020 21:59
 Perché non lo sapevo 😳

Comunque le decals dicono che non l'hanno mai fatto se leggo bene

 Fabrizio1966 :

13/9/2020 22:32
 cito da Zaloga, a memoria. Un panther sarebbe stato mandato in indocina per valutazione nel caso si fosse reso necessario inviare mezzi pesanti per contrastare un eventuale intervento cinese. Il mezzo si rivelò totalmente inadatto e fu abbandonato in loco, dove venne poi avvistato da equipaggi americani molti anni dopo, con la colorazione così sbiadita da guadagnarsi il soprannome di "pink panther" . La cosa sarebbe confermata sia da uno dei massimi esperti di mezzi corazzati francesi ( una sorta di Pignato d'oltralpe) sia da uno degli "avvistatori" americani, un esperto di AFV che, secondo Zaloga, di cui era amico, non avrebbe mai confuso un panther con un M36...

 frengo :

13/9/2020 22:53
 Quote:
Il mezzo si rivelò totalmente inadatto.
e hanno dovuto spedirne uno fin laggiù per capirlo? :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

 MZ1958 :

14/9/2020 17:35
 be...almeno lo hanno capito mandandone solo uno.


i nostri esperti nel passato e chissa ancora oggi, hanno messo in produzione aeri e mezzi per accorgersi solo dopo batoste storiche o tecniche, che qualcosa avevano sbagliato nello decire in merito.

ma chissa,
ammettere sbagl o scelte non giuste potrebbe essere una virtu degli uni e difetto degli altri.

saluti marco

in merito alla domanda iniziale :

da
http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/afvs.html

M4 Sherman Medium Tank

The famous Sherman was used in limited numbers both in the M4A1 version, and the M-32 ARV (with 81mm mortar, but no gun, 1x hull 0.3in MG, 1x 0.5in AA MG, winch and A-frame jib).

Weight: 30 tons
Crew: 5
Length: 19ft 4in (excluding gun) (5.89m)
Width: 8ft 7in (2.62m)
Height: 9ft (2.74m)
Armour: 12-75mm
Armament: 75mm gun, 0.5in MG (AA), 2x 0.3in MG (hull and coaxial)
Engine: various, typically 500hp petrol or 375hp diesel
Top Speed: 24-29mph (cross-country 15-20mph approx)
Range: 100-150 miles (depending on engine)




Danny O'Hara

This page is an attempt to detail the various types of AFV in service during the French Indochina War of 1945-54. I do not intend to spend much time here on tactics or organisations, but to give an overview of the variety of equipment in service with the CEFEO. The history of the various armoured units in Indochina deserves a page to itself !

As with most areas of equipment for the CEFEO, the AFVs were an heterogenous mix - in the early days Japanese tanks were used by the returning French Army, and later a mixture of US, British and French vehicles were brought in. Many were modified locally, and as in most thing the French proved to be nothing if not adaptable.

Tanks and Tankettes

Japanese Tanks


The CEFEO made use of several ex-Japanese tanks early in the War.

The main user of these was an ad-hoc formation (apparently the reforming Détachment Motorisée du Cambodge?) in Cambodia, which used Renault UE tractors with machine-guns mounted, plus a mixture of Japanese Type 89B mediums, Type 95 lights and Type 94 tankettes. There were at least 9 Japanese tanks in service on 15th February 1946.

Type 89-B Medium Tank (Otsu)

Weight: 13 tons
Crew: 4
Length: 19ft 3ins (5.87m)
Width: 7ft 1in (2.16m)
Height: 8ft 6ins (2.59m)
Armour: 10-17mm
Armament: 57mm gun, 2x 7.7mm MGs (one in turret rear, one in hull)
Engine: 115hp diesel
Top Speed: 15mph

Type 95 Light Tank (Ha-Go)

Weight: 7.5 tons
Crew: 3
Length: 14ft 4ins (4.37m)
Width: 6ft 9ins (2.06m)
Height: 7ft (2.13m)
Armour: 6-12mm
Armament: 37mm gun, 2x 7.7mm MGs (one in turret rear, one in cupola)
Engine: 110hp diesel
Top Speed: 25mph
Range: 100 miles

Type 94 TK Tankette

Weight: 3.5 tons
Crew: 2
Length: 10ft (3.05m)
Width: 5ft 3ins (1.60m)
Height: 5ft 4ins (1.63m)
Armour: 4-12mm
Armament: 7.7mm MG in small turret (offset to right)
Engine: 32hp petrol
Top Speed: 26mph
Range: 100 miles

French Tanks

There were a few Renault MG-armed chenillettes in Cambodia at the beginning of the conflict, and numbers of H-39 light tanks were sent out from France in 1947 and 1948.

Chenillette Renault UE "Colonie"


Weight: 2 tons
Crew: 2
Length: 9ft 2ins (2.80m)
Width: 5ft 8.5ins (1.74m)
Height: 4ft 1in (1.25m)
Armour: 7mm maximum
Armament: 1 7.5mm MG (FM 24/29)
Engine: 35hp petrol
Top Speed: 18mph
Range: 60 miles

The casemate was an AMX development, built initially for export orders to China pre-WW2. There were apparently 6 in service in Cambodia, 15th February 1946.

Hotchkiss H-39 Light Tank

These tanks of the Blitzkrieg Era of WW2 had probably seen service with the French Army in 1940, then the Wehrmacht, and were then returned to French use again. The first arrived in May 1947 to equip the REC (Foreign Legion Cavalry Regiment), with 20 more in April 1948.

Weight: 12 tons
Crew: 2
Length: 13ft 10ins (4.22m)
Width: 6ft 5ins (1.95m)
Height: 7ft 1ins (2.15m)
Armour: 34mm maximum
Armament: 37mm gun and 7.5mm MG
Engine: 120hp petrol
Top Speed: 22mph (36kph)
Range: 75 miles (120km)

US Tanks

M5 Stuart Light Tank

This tank provided the main part of the CEFEO's tank force until replacement by the more modern M24 Chaffee started in 1950, but it was in service from 1946 until the final withdrawal.

Weight: 15 tons
Crew: 4
Length: 15ft 10.5ins (4.84m)
Width: 7ft 4.25ins ((2.24m)
Height: 7ft 6.5ins (2.30m)
Armour: 12-67mm
Armament: 37mm gun, 3 MGs (co-axial, hull and AA)
Engine: 110hp petrol
Top Speed: 36mph (cross-country 24mph approx)
Range: 100 miles

HMC M8

Based on the M-5 hull, this vehicle provided much needed fire-support to armoured units in Indochina.

Weight: 15 tons
Crew: 4
Length: 16ft 3ins (4.95m)
Width: 7ft 7ins (2.31m)
Height: 7ft 6.5ins (2.30m)
Armour: 10-54mm
Armament: 75mm howitzer (in open turret), 0.5in MG (AA)
Engine: 220hp petrol
Top Speed: 36mph (cross-country 24mph approx)
Range: 100 miles

M4 Sherman Medium Tank

The famous Sherman was used in limited numbers both in the M4A1 version, and the M-32 ARV (with 81mm mortar, but no gun, 1x hull 0.3in MG, 1x 0.5in AA MG, winch and A-frame jib).

Weight: 30 tons
Crew: 5
Length: 19ft 4in (excluding gun) (5.89m)
Width: 8ft 7in (2.62m)
Height: 9ft (2.74m)
Armour: 12-75mm
Armament: 75mm gun, 0.5in MG (AA), 2x 0.3in MG (hull and coaxial)
Engine: various, typically 500hp petrol or 375hp diesel
Top Speed: 24-29mph (cross-country 15-20mph approx)
Range: 100-150 miles (depending on engine)

M24 Chaffee Light Tank

This excellent light tank came into service in Indochina from 1950, and was most famously used at Dien Bien Phu where the Chaffees were nicknamed "bisons".

Weight: 18 tons
Crew: 5
Length: 16ft 6ins (excluding gun) (5.03m)
Width: 9ft 8ins (2.95m)
Height: 8ft 1.5ins (2.48m)
Armour: 10-38mm
Armament: 75mm gun, 0.5in MG(AA), 2x 0.3in MG (hull and coaxial)
Engine: 220hp petrol
Top Speed: 35mph (cross-country 25mph approx) 
Range: 110 miles

M36B2 Jackson Tank-destroyer

This tank destroyer was initially deployed to Indochina to guard the Chinese border, but was generally used for fire-support. It was based on the M-10 Tank Destroyer, itself a development from the M4A2 Sherman.

Weight: 28 tons
Crew: 5
Length: 19ft 7ins (5.97m)
Width: 10ft (3.05m)
Height: 10ft 5.5ins (3.19m)
Armour: 12-50mm
Armament: 90mm gun, 0.5in MG (AA)
Engine: 450hp petrol
Top Speed: 30mph (cross-country 18mph approx)
Range: 112 miles





http://www.smallscaleafv.com/inspiration/patrick-lapalu/french-sherman-m4-a1-in-indochina-january-1952/




molto interessante:

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent9.htm

vedi sotto:
2. MAP for Indochina

molto interessante :
http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/ebook/p/2005/CMH_2/www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/vietnam/mounted/chapter1.htm

oppure

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=en&tl=it&u=https%3A%2F%2Foaktrust.library.tamu.edu%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F1969.1%2FETD-TAMU-2010-12-8874%2FWEBER-THESIS.pdf%3Fsequence%3D2%26isAllowed%3Dy&prev=search

figurini :
https://www.planetfigure.com/threads/french-indochina-figure-kits.117246/

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/azimut-adv35714-team-75mm-gun-m20-indochine-algerie--1102099











etc etc.

saluti marco

 jEnrique61 :

14/9/2020 21:02
  Ciao Marco sei MEGLIO dell'Enciclopedia Treccani... Complimenti. Saluti

 

 Hoot :

14/9/2020 22:19
 Grazie mille

 frengo :

14/9/2020 22:28
 Type 89 e tanketta renault! si trattavano bene i francesi :-D :-D :-D

potresti farlo un giapponese (anche se per me è quasi uno spreco) ...

 Alessandro-tigre86 :

16/9/2020 18:29
 Quote:

frengo ha scritto:

Il mezzo si rivelò totalmente inadatto. e hanno dovuto spedirne uno fin laggiù per capirlo? :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


Son Francesi :-P :-P :-D

 GMSVERONA :

17/9/2020 15:34
 in scala 1/35 per fortuna di kit dedicati alla SHERMAN ce ne sono molti..segnalo gli ultimi della Meng ..valido anche il nuovo M A4/2 della Zveda..poi DRAGON ..datati i Tamiya.. ottimi i TASCA/Azuka. per gli altri mezzi ce ne sono molti AFV CLUB e invece per il pantera ce ne sono molti..ma molti kit..

© 2004-2018 www.modellismopiu.it
https://www.modellismopiu.it

URL di questa discussione
https://www.modellismopiu.it/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=141748&forum=4